My Interview with a Right Wing Extremist in the American Outback

My profession takes me to some very strange places.  I have been living on the road for the better part of the last decade, and work predominately in the most desolate parts of the most rural areas of the lower 48.  There are some hidden jewels that places like this have to offer, and some terrifying adversity as well.

I am a progressive.  I didn’t used to be.  I was once quite apolitical and apathetic.  Outside of one election that I worked on in my life (the ‘against all odds’ battle of Paul Wellstone for the US Senate in Minnesota), I have been disengaged.  That all changed when that the king of dumbfuckery George W. Bush was somehow reelected in 2004 after dirty Republican politics prevailed once again.  It was at that moment that I knew I had to get involved.

Being an outspoken and unapologetic progressive can be outright dangerous in many of the places that I travel to.  Don’t get me wrong, people are generally good wherever you go, but being typecast as an outsider or liberal in certain areas is tantamount to putting on a pink tutu and trying to pick up the drunkest guy at the bar.

I expect people to judge me by my actions, not my appearance or political views, and almost exclusively, this underdog comes out making friends with many potential enemies.  We often don’t agree on a single thing politically, but that often doesn’t matter in the end.

Such was the case with Vick, the Serbian bartender at the International in the village of Austin, Nevada, literally on the Loneliest Highway in America.  I’ve spent many a drunken night after a hard days work bullshitting with the man.  The debates are always civil, although we find each others ideologies outright offensive.  You see, despite the man being a friend of mine, Vick is a right wing extremist, someone on the very far side of the fringe right.  Below is my interview of him which took place September 1^st, 2009.

Ole – What are Obamas best and worst qualities?

Vick – Not enough time to say.

Ole – How is the direction of the country different than it was during Bush?

Vick – Socialism.  [pause and stare] People don’t fucking take care of themselves and expect the government to, that’s the start of it.

Ole – Who would say is the best world leader we have today?

Vick – [eyes focus on my bottle of Bud] Shimon Peres.

Ole – That surprises me.  Why?  Many right wing Israelis despise Peres.  They think he’s doing too much compromising with Palestinian extremists.

Vick – He’s going to bomb the Iranian nukes.  Just like they bombed the Iraqi nukes…back before…you remember that? [inquisitive stare]

Ole – yes, I remember…[customer walks up to the bar (no joke).  I went to throw a few bucks into the jukebox.  Luckily there was some classic rock, it wasn’t all country or western music.  The bar had 3 people in it at that point, including an exceptionally intoxicated biker girl, who repeatedly exposed her breasts to the everyone at the bar at the encouragement of Vick]

Vick – [upon returning from mixing a drink and talking to the blonde girl] You know where the original Jerusalem is?

Ole – [ponders what the question really means]- Are you talking about a…

Vick – It was in Addis Abbaba [Ethiopia]. The original Jews came from there.  They were black.  You know that, right?  Moses was black.  Jesus was black too.  You know why they were black?  Because they work outside like you.  [smiles slightly]

Ole [laughs]- well, I did take off my shirt and sunburn my back today.

[a couple more people working on a local geothermal project come in from the adjacent restaurant and order some drinks.  Conversation shifts for a few minutes]

Ole – OK, let’s move onto the next subject.  What do you think about the current state of health care in this country and if any reforms are needed, what they should be.

Vick – We should have co-ops without any government interference.  We already have them in Pennsylvania and Ohio…

Ole – There’s a successful smaller one in Washington State…

Vick – No.  I’m talking about the Amish.  When somebody gets sick, everybody takes care of them.  They all chip in, and this takes care of everyone.

Ole – The problem I see with co-ops is this, they can’t compete on a national level.

Vick – Sure they can.  They have lower costs.  Whatever money isn’t used is left over.

Ole – If we look at how successful co-ops are in the agricultural sector, they have been phased out in the last 30 years.  There was a time when they were all over the place, but the big agri-business took over, family farmers all went bankrupt, and the countryside was depopulated.

Vick – That’s a matter of personal responsibility.  If a farmer buys $50,000 tractor he can’t afford for a 200 acre farm then can’t make the payments, whose fault is that?  It’s the same thing with the housing bust.  Everyone blames Bush, but nobody forced people to buy houses outside of their price range.  Excuse me…

At this point, Vic starts to continue in sporadic bursts, engaging other bar patrons.  He is an entertainer, as any good bartender should be.  After a few minutes, he returns.

Ole – Just one final question along this theme.  There have been a lot of debunked myths about the current health care reform bill.  Most of these have been spread by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, conservative talk radio, and other means.  These myths include death panels, covering illegal immigrants, a government takeover, and free abortions.  Why do over half of Republicans believe these, while a far less percentage of the general population do?

Vick – I don’t believe it.  [pause]

Ole -  What don’t you believe?

Vick – Death panels are in the bill.  It was on the tv [Vick always has Fox News on]. Both Republicans and Democrats said so.  They already have death panels in Oregon.  If you get cancer and the treatment’s too expensive, the just let you die.  It’s like the Americans with Disabilities Act.  If you read it, it says ‘all Americans have to have equal access’.  Now, do you think the Tahoe rim trail is accessible to people in wheelchairs?

[A larger group moves in, more delays ensue.  It is difficult to keep the interview focused with a lot of loud, boisterous people there.  I consider delaying the interview, but have upgraded to one Vicks infamously strong a whiskey cokes for 15 minutes]

Ole – OK, let’s move onto foreign policy.  Was the Iraq War a mistake?

Vick – No.

Ole – Why do you think that? [intending to cite numerous facts about the deception leading up to the invasion and the ensuing fiasco, not realizing how difficult it can be to get a word in edgewise at times]

Vick – Iraq was feeding terrorism.  Just like Iran is now.  It’s the same all over the Muslim world.  We needed to bomb Afghanistan just like we need to bomb Pakistan now.  These Muslim terrorists are all over the place. India, Chechnya, Bosnia.  You know how many Muslims are in Indonesia? [Vick is a Serbian nationalist, someone who hated the communists in his country, but hated the Muslims in the region far more]

Ole – I believe there are around 200 million.  If I’m not mistaken, India actually has about the same.

[At this point, some others who had been sitting around me joined into the conversation.  We discuss a variety of issues, and I am now the one being interviewed.  It is a situation I am accustomed to.  The conversation remains civil, despite differences in opinion on many subjects.  A few minutes later, Vic steered the conversation back to government interference into the private sector.]

Vick – The tobacco lawsuits cost $2 trillion. [the most accurate information I could dig up actually came to $246 billion] That money went to state governments, and you know what they did with it?  Gave themselves raises.  Not one person saw one dime.  Philip-Morris recovered that $2 trillion in ONE MONTH by raising the cost of a pack by a dollar.  [again, this is an extreme exaggeration]  It’ll always be like that.  The rich will always make their money, no matter what.

Ole – Do you think we should eliminate all taxes?

Vick – HELL YES!  That’s the way it was until 1917 when a Democrat started it.  Then in 1935, social security started, the start of a complete socialization of the country.

[the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. -source]

Ole – Do you support elimination of social security?

Vick – Yes.

Ole – [I had intended to focus more on foreign and social policies, but things were a bit chaotic in the bar, and decided to truncate the interview at this point, and moved onto economic policy] The past 30 years has been dominated by a conservative economic philosophy of privatization, lower taxes for the rich, and deregulation, all mantras of the Republican party.  Considering CEOs now take home over 400 times what the average worker does, which is 1/3^rd of all pay in America, do you think it might be time to give something else a try?

Vick – That was a good thing.  [Vick appeared to be growing weary of the interview as well.  Sensing others listening in, Vick offered a slightly racist joke] Obama is proof that no matter how successful a black man can get, they’ll still live in government housing.

Ole – What about the incredible gulf in wealth consolidation and inequality that these policies have created?

Vick – That doesn’t matter, the rich will always get what they want.  What we need to do is lower taxes.  Did you  know that you only make 22 cents on the dollar?

Ole – I don’t.  I get over 70 cents on the dollar based on my income.  Even the top tax rate is only around 35%.

Vick – No, I’m not talking about that.  AFTER income taxes.  Look at what you’re drinking, that’s taxed.  You smoke, that’s taxed.  You drive your car, that’s taxed.  Everything included, you only make 22 cents on the dollar.

[I was unable to verify this figure after doing research upon returning to ‘internet-land’, but cannot believe it’s even close to reality because I usually put away at least 25% of each paycheck]

Vick – The government is running the economy.  Look at the auto bailouts.  Obama now owns 2 of the 3 auto companies in the country.

Ole – They bailed them out with loans, but there were strings to the money.  Isn’t restructuring a failed business model worthy of keeping a manufacturing base in America?

Vick – There is no manufacturing left in the country.  It’s all been shipped to China!

Ole – Isn’t that due to free trade policies that don’t have any labor or environmental stipulations?  If we demanded that other countries don’t pollute and treat their workers with the minimal amount of respect, things should be more equalized.  This is due to conservative economic policy.

Vick – It was done by Clinton.

Ole – Who was fiscally conservative.

Vick – [changing the subject] Did you know that Lander county will accept any homeless person?  All they need to do is contact the commissioner in Battle Mountain, Mr. Sparks and Steinmentz.

Ole – I did not know that, but it doesn’t surprise me.  Rural areas have been depopulated for the last generation.  There’s a city in Kansas that was giving away a free house and plot of land to anyone who was willing to move there. [Plainville, Kansas]

At this point the whole interview process disintegrated.  There was simply too much commotion, too many interruptions, and frankly too much alcohol involved to keep things running smoothly.

I had intended to ask some tough questions about the nature of right wing hate and the incitement that has led to multiple acts of violence, including the assassination of Dr. George Tiller and the Holocaust Memorial terrorism, but a more focused environment was needed.  Vick and I had also previously discussed the potential assassination of Barack Obama, which he was certain would ignite a race war, but that issue would have to be tabled for the time being.

There is a huge cultural rift in present day America, as there has been during many times in our history: the run up to the Civil War, isolationism vs. interventionism in WWI, the New Deal, JFK’s election and the 60’s, the rise of right wing hate in the early/mid 90s, and today.  I think it’s important to keep engaging those with vastly different views in order to try and bridge the gap in our country.  This interview and hopefully more in the future with others will hopefully educate those from every political persuasion and philosophy to treat each other with respect.